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Author Topic: Mansonloran, Eugenics-Human Reproduction, 19 July 2016, Alderfer, L V, NV.  (Read 1220 times)

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daniel alderfer

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"Eyes Only"
Teacher: Mansonloran
Subject: Eugenics or Human Reproduction
Category: Eugenics
T/R: Daniel Alderfer, Las Vegas NV.
19 July 2016, 19:42 Z

   Transmitter: Thank You Father of all for the privilege of working for you and with You like this in the corrective time of Urantia’s salvation. Is there a transmission of teaching or message or lesson for all working in the Magisterial Son’s and Jesus’s Missions?


   Mansonloran: “Yes there is young man, begin writing as you always do, but this time I want to do things a little differently. My name is Mansonloran, a Melchizedek working with the Serara Magisterial Mission staff. By different, I mean a fresh new beginning on the subject of miscegenation or mixing of the races. In the passages in the Urantia Book speaking of the qualities and characteristics of the many races, and talking about the mixtures there of, statements are made that have outraged and confused many. Things are said that make it look like there are inferior types of genetic groups or categories. First of all, there are only beautiful humanoids of all stripes that are adored by the Father. Those comments that have perplexed and stirred to disbelief, sounded like some types, are unworthy of reproduction. That the strains containing Adamic infused genetics and some other races deemed of a more balanced lineage, are the only ones worthy of reproduction.

  “This is the sum of the subject and what we must address in clarity and honesty, but above all understanding of what was meant by the authors. This can be brought a long way along to resolving the worthy or unworthy question by this statement: ‘any intelligent being of consciousness, without any examination of intelligence quotient can be upon the ascension path to the Father, upon their choice of embracing and loving The Father. ANY’.  Nothing was meant by the statements that cause such consternation, other than: looking at a strain of people, or all strains of people, and asking; what should be done concerning the next generation? The authors of the Urantia Book are attempting to inform about this subject.

  “For an example about the topic: The scribe writing what I say to write, is of a strain of European ancestry, In the simplest terms part Swiss-German-Austrian, part Jewish- that hid their fore fathers by becoming protestant at a certain time of Italian persecution- part 57 varieties of American Anglo Saxon, part English, part who knows what. In looking at what would work well for using his genetic make up for reproduction, many, many things should be taken into consideration. He has a preponderance, because of the last four or so ancestral match’s, of what is known as Pennsylvania Dutch. They were not known for introducing new strains in their new families and thus there is a concentration of qualities sometimes deleterious to strength and good health and even sometimes mental balance. I’m using him who I trust is thick skinned enough, to illustrate the issues.

   “Now in the corrective time, in the common education of all citizens, the subject of Eugenics, will be a public school staple. - public school meaning free education provided by all Urantian governments- Eugenics is the study and implementation of wise reproduction to bring about improvement in the offspring produced.  In the Urantia Book, the statements that have stumbled not a few, is the issue about choosing wisely with whom to procreate. That is ALL that is being discussed.  ALL races on Urantia have strengths and weaknesses. ALL Races on Urantia, an evolutionary planet, are a work in progress.

     "The statements that admonish not to waste compassion and empathic energy on those deemed less advantageous of reproduction are not only time sensitive for eons ago but are only general statements of a wise governmental policy, not a policy for how we treat our neighbors. It is common commendable practice in western social services to take care of all in need and yet erroneously they provide no advice or guidance what so ever concerning the free breeding in our culture. No matter how unwise a match might be it is considered sacrosanct to let it proceed.

  “I must emphasize in passing, some reprehensively, consider the words in the Urantia Book to give them a free pass to give heartless treatment to those of developmental or genetic difficulties. We will never ignore, neglect or lessen service to any on earth. No matter how challenged they or those of our own family for that matter are, we would always take care of them with the most tender attention and compassionate service. This is simply a matter of who to mate with. That is all.  The free match up with wise council of any race, with any other race, is encouraged for the blending and homogenization of strengths. No prejudice must ever be a consideration.

  “Thank you all again, as I have instructed for this group here on the TML Forum before, for your taking in this training and explanation for the future dissemination for those you will be teaching. With affection and kind appreciation, this is Mansonloran.”

End

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« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 16:52 by daniel alderfer »
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SpeaktheWisdom

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"The statements that admonish not to waste compassion and empathic energy on those deemed less advantageous of reproduction are not only time sensitive for eons ago but are only general statements of a wise governmental policy, not a policy for how we treat our neighbors. It is common commendable practice in western social services to take care of all in need and yet erroneously they provide no advice or guidance what so ever concerning the free breeding in our culture."

How does "
not to waste compassion and empathic energy" = "yet erroneously they provide no advice or guidance what so ever concerning the free breeding"?

Whether a government does nor does not give advice about breeding is not related, in the slightest, to having compassion and empathy. And in fact, the passage you refer to makes mention of in what context they are talking and it has nothing to do with government. It specifically relates this admonition against wasting love on inferiors (those who have forever refused their moral heritage as well as conventional inferiors) to individuals looking to develop within themselves a good moral character.

I understand the middle sentence in paper 52:2.12 does refer specifically to breeding. But the first sentence and the third very clearly qualify beyond simple procreation and admonish you not waste altruism nor tolerance. And it speaks nothing to limitation based on functional inferiority; it actually denotes those who refuse morality as eligible of designation as not fit, not just those who are mentally retarded or physically handicapped which it speaks on in the previous verse.

52:2.12  It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.

If Mansoloran would be so kind as to help me understand where I am misunderstanding I would be happy to try to understand.

Nothing changes the fact that the creator chose this. And decided to trust someone who was not fundamentally forced to provide correct behavior, thus creating the necessary pre-conditions to indirectly cause this entire situation. Why? Why do this to experiencing beings whose fault it is obviously not? I have a hard time seeing the divinity here. Is it really reasonable to blame Caligastia when he did not appoint himself and thus shouldn't be the only one held accountable should he? Why are we even here?
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daniel alderfer

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Dear Josiah, Speak the Wisdom

Here is my answer that is being helped by my Adjuster Meloloc Who Mansonloran kindly said could correctly help field this answer. [Thank you Meloloc for giving me the time out of your day for this assistance]  [Josiah, In my long conversations with you I am aware of your exquisite linguistic usage, and if we have to go through this with a fine tooth comb, that's fine,  please however try to hold your judgment about all these issues  for quite some time as it is instruction given in the Urantia Book by truly expert scholars, and any seeming outrageous statements like we are dealing with here simply need to be understood in right context. When we have a glaring conflict like you are implying, it has to be a miss understanding of the intent intended.]  You asked the question below:  

1st Question: How does "not to waste compassion and empathic energy" = "yet erroneously they provide no advice or guidance what so ever concerning the free breeding"?

The answer is that it does not equal the second half of your question. The first half of the question is simply a statement about the beings in question. The second half of your question is a critique or observation that present day Social Services do not [as a governmental social services administration should] give advice and guidance about who should couple for reproduction.

2nd Question: I quote you here, Whether a government does nor does not give advice about breeding is not related, in the slightest, to having compassion and empathy. And in fact, the passage you refer to makes mention of in what context they are talking and it has nothing to do with government. It specifically relates this admonition against wasting love on inferiors (those who have forever refused their moral heritage as well as conventional inferiors) to individuals looking to develop within themselves a good moral character.

Our answer is: I agree, government is as far as I can tell not specifically addressed, only a statement about right principles of matching persons up for procreation.  So connecting the two as your do in the quote above was not intended by the writer.

3rd Question: I quote you here: I understand the middle sentence in paper 52:2.12 does refer specifically to breeding. But the first sentence and the third very clearly qualify beyond simple procreation and admonish you not waste altruism nor tolerance. And it speaks nothing to limitation based on functional inferiority; it actually denotes those who refuse morality as eligible of designation as not fit, not just those who are mentally retarded or physically handicapped which it speaks on in the previous verse.

Our answer is: I think what your are asking us the question: How can a loving compassionate creator say such judgmental and definitive things about a somewhat intelligent being a lot like an animal? As your feeling is that even an animal or any creature deserves loving treatment and consideration. It does deserve loving treatment and consideration, and the Creator and we would always give that, yet this is a general statement and is a blanket understanding of what should be the priorities in dealing with evolutionary races and their fostering or not fostering. The individuals thus judged in what sounds like harshness will simply not be allowed beyond this present generation in question to reproduce.  That is all.

4th question: here Dear Josiah, I need your feed back as to what you specifically do not understand in the scripture here reproduced. Please get back with a detailed reply to see what is puzzling you about what is said. Please tell us what you do not understand. 52:2.12  It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.

Question 5: I quote: Nothing changes the fact that the creator chose this. And decided to trust someone who was not fundamentally forced to provide correct behavior, thus creating the necessary pre-conditions to indirectly cause this entire situation. Why? Why do this to experiencing beings whose fault it is obviously not? I have a hard time seeing the divinity here. Is it really reasonable to blame Caligastia when he did not appoint himself and thus shouldn't be the only one held accountable should he? Why are we even here?

Our answer: I think what you are saying is this: How can statements that are attributed to Divinity be such that they appear to contradict the clear teaching of compassion for all in all the scriptures everywhere? Since there can never be teaching of cross purposes that you are implying there are here, then the trouble has to be in our understanding. Think on this, asking for advice and understanding from your adjuster Flo, because this is only a semantic difficulty that can be understood. We can absolutely trust that the revelation known as the Urantia book generally is right on. Not totally without error but those errors are largely typographical.  You can trust that some things will be phrased differently in the second edition comprising over 8000 pages, but mean while we can rest that anything not understood can be satisfactorily explained through our Adjusters.

Dear Josiah, You can only be praised for your efforts in the time you have been on these forums and you can be commended above many for the careful studious desire to really understand the whole book. With that attitude you can with humility,have a very bright future in the Magisterial Sons Missions, to my lights you can with humility be a very useful servant.
With warmest respect and regards, Daniel


« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 16:54 by daniel alderfer »
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SpeaktheWisdom

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Thank you Daniel, Meloloc and Mansoloran! I know you do not have a lot of time and yet you share it with me so that I might find the teachings well! I have taken a lot of time to reflect on this and I have continued on with conversations that address this particular note. I can see, my issues are not fully understood and as a result, I don't think you truly understand what was troubling me. But before I attempt to explain what that was I would like to touch on another, more fundamental, note I have picked up on. It is a motif common to all these helpful responses and that is the nature of statements made. To make this shorter I will touch on the clarification of my issues in another response to follow.

From my material or scientific perspective, you do not tell reality what it is. Reality tells you what it is. It is unidirectional. Jesus on the other hand, would have you understand, it is multidirectional. That is, what you know dictates how you organize what you experience in your perception of reality. Really focus on that last line. To not lose you, I will attempt to show examples where Jesus, his followers and even you Daniel, did this. I am not saying I disagree with multidirectional, I am saying I am confused by it; and thus, our views do not coincide.

A: “Jesus said:  My brother, God is love; therefore he must be good, and his goodness is so great and real that it cannot contain the small and unreal things of evil. God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil.”

B: Ganid: “God is not only all-powerful but also all-wise. If our earth parents, being of evil tendency, know how to love their children and bestow good gifts on them, how much more must the good Father in heaven know how wisely to love his children on earth and to bestow suitable blessings upon them.”

C: Daniel: “it is instruction given in the Urantia Book by truly expert scholars, any seeming outrageous statements like we are dealing with here simply need to be understood in right context. When we have a glaring conflict like you are implying, it has to be a miss understanding of the intent intended.”

A: Notice that what Jesus knows (or maybe believes) to be true, that God is love, dictates the organization of the perception of the reality (what apparent facts are coming in through his perception). God could not be responsible for Evil because God is love. Therefore, no matter what comes in through the perception, nothing challenges this apparent knowledge that God is love. Each thing is simply organized in its proper place. And it is spoken with the authority of essential-hood in the words: ‘must be’

B: Same can be said for Ganid. Because he knows God is our Father, what he perceives as the blessings of the Father are organized as ‘much more good’ than our human fathers. And spoken with the same authority of essential-hood in the word: ‘must’.

C: Same can be said for you Daniel. You know the instruction in The Urantia Book was given by expert scholars and so, it is impossible for there to be ‘outrageous statements;’ it has to be a misunderstanding. This means it must only SEEM like outrageous statements, as you put it. And, again, there is the authority of essential-hood in the words: ‘has to be’

I don’t fully understand why or how we could have the ability to dictate what reality is. I do believe the various lines about the character of God, but do I KNOW them? If it was true that I could say I know them then it would be strange indeed since all things known would, as a matter of necessity, have some sort of beginning in perceived reality. Since reality tells you what it is, and what we ‘know’ comes from reality, as that is where it got its beginning, then there should never be any apparent discrepancy or any ‘outrageous statements’ as you put it.

So I am forced to think that these claims of ‘know’ are possibly all a choice of belief and not a conviction to the truth of reality. And in such case I suppose the only thing in question is can we really trust God enough to maintain these beliefs regarding his character, even despite them not lining up with apparent reality. I don’t really know what to do with any of this because, to me, both convictions seem less than fully correct. I do, constantly, go back to the FACT that I experienced Flo and The Human Up There long before any notion of religion (something to do with a God) came into my mind. And so, it is on that personal experience I can base the ‘lines about God’ I, myself, ‘know’. So, maybe it is a matter of that personal experience as well as an attempt at faith to fill in where that experience fails to fully illuminate the truth. This is, in a nutshell, the motif I noticed. Where does this claim of ‘know’ come from? I would ask this to all you who think you ‘know’ something. I would also ask those who have read these passages before what went through your mind when you read them. What did this word ‘know’ mean to you as you read it?

An additional factor for me, although without any concrete reason, I do feel like there is some intricate interplay between hopes, aspirations & spiritual yearnings and the things stated above, especially reality. That confidence and faith begets material reality. And so it seems, it is with ease that one who understands this, like Jesus, would have the ability to faithfully manifest the reality of God through his unwavering belief and confidence in the already-existing-nature of just such a reality.

I would so much appreciate anyone who enjoys thinking deeply about things to consider what I have said and to tell me what thoughts are entertained in your mind.
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SpeaktheWisdom

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Flo just brought me to this:

"The evidence of true spiritual development consists in the exhibition of a human personality motivated by love, activated by unselfish ministry, and dominated by the wholehearted worship of the perfection ideals of divinity. And this entire experience constitutes the reality of religion as contrasted with mere theological beliefs."

I think this explains it. The constitution of the reality of religion is in fact based in the self-dictating ideal of divinity. It is the ideal which tells reality what it MUST BE, and that is the authority upon which these apparent claims seem to be made. And since the Ideals of divinity are in conjunction with a 'personality motivated by love' and 'activated by unselfish ministry' it is no wonder Jesus, some of his followers and obviously you Daniel, would have this same authority with which you could claim to 'know' things.

For me, if I could say it without lying, I feel I am motivated by love and that I am activated by unselfish ministry. But what I lack is the adherence to the Ideals of divinity over that which is observed through the eyes; apparent or perceived reality. I think I have had only theological beliefs up unto this revelation. Excepting all those experiences of Flo which my mind brings me back to constantly, which I might say was founded on my first conceiving of a direction revealer who was in fact perfect. How's that for an ideal? ha ha ha.. That was what was my first thought about Flo when I first discerned his leading in my life. I will ponder this more. He never ceases to crack me up as he leads me all around. Even in one of my T/R's he used a word I did not know and when I went to find its definition, it was something only I would get and make use of. Something so far outside of conventional religion normal people who study this stuff wouldn't get it. It is so humorous to me how specialized the leading is. He truly knows me.

My invitation to consider these things and talk about them with anyone interested still remains. :) As always, thanks for reading!

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daniel alderfer

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Josiah, I hope you will continue more introspective offerings like this as It is rich and helpful. Thank you my friend. Daniel
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Kathy Rathbun

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Josiah, Kathy here. Many times, when reading the Urantia book, I would be shocked and confused as to what was written. The particular quote that has you upset, upset me also. It was one of those times that I had to put the book away on a shelf, and it usually stayed there for quite a time. Then, one day, I would have a revelation of some kind which would compel me to re-examine the passage which I did not understand, and which had made me uncomfortable. This time, I read that passage with new understanding. Time and again this process has happened to me. What I learned was this: All of us is loved equally, but there are many cogs in the wheel, each different, each contributing, each cherished. We are never forced, and our learning is earned on our own. We get assistance if we ask. Usually, my negative reactions were because of a "smaller" view, not encompassing the whole. One is not sacrificed for the other, they work harmoniously, together. We are all spiritually equivalent and valuable in Gods' eyes. However, even the mercy extended to Lucifer was not eternal. But these are not judgments I have to make, thank goodness, so I serve, as best I can, without prejudice and with as much love as I am capable of.
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SpeaktheWisdom

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I came across this excerpt today and finding that it does well to comment on the very issue that confused me in Daniel's responses etc, this ability to claim you 'know' things, I felt it was fitting to post it here in case anyone wanted to read TUB perspective on the matter.

"Convictions about God may be arrived at through wise reasoning, but the individual becomes God-knowing only by faith, through personal experience. In much that pertains to life, probability must be reckoned with, but when contacting with cosmic reality, certainty may be experienced when such meanings and values are approached by living faith. The God-knowing soul dares to say, 'I know,' even when this knowledge of God is questioned by the unbeliever who denies such certitude because it is not wholly supported by intellectual logic. To every such doubter the believer only replies, 'How do you know that I do not know?' "(1124.7) 102:6.5
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daniel alderfer

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Hi Josiah,

Thanks for bringing this quote from the U B that I hadn't remembered. I appreciate all you have written above previously and if there is some area that could be dissected more please come back with more discussion as my own intellectual understanding is only just beginning to be consolidated. Happy regards, Daniel
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To Daniel and Melchizedek Mansonloran and Ron Besser.

To Daniel and Melchizedek Mannsonloran:

Thank you very much for this message about the races that says, in short, that every human being, regardless of race, can reach the light of God.

Actually, there is a passage in the Urantia Book that says that there is a representative of all races in the 24 councilors of our world, including representative of the extinct Sangik races (blue, orange and green). (See documents 45 and 114 of the Urantia Book).

1) Onagar; 2) Mansant; 3) Onamonaloton (red race man - North America); 4) Orlandof (blue race man - extinct race - "cro-magnon man" - Europe); 5) Porshunta (man of the orange race - extinct race - probably Africa); 6) Singlangton (man of the yellow race - probably Asia); 7) Fantad (man of the green race - extinct race - probably Africa); 8) Orvonon (man of the indigo-black race - Africa); 9) Adam (Material Son who came to our planet around 37,000 years ago to contribute and to make more balanced the genetic inheritance of the human race - violet race - Mesopotamia); 10) Eva (Material Daughter who came to our planet around 37,000 years ago to contribute and make more balanced the genetic inheritance of the human - violet race - Mesopotamia); 11) Enoch (the first mortal to merge with the Thought Adjuster in life); 12) Moses (Jew - Leader of the Hebrews in the "Exodus" - Exit from Egypt); 13) Elijah (The Old Testament prophet); 14) Machiventa Melchizedek (Melchizedek who physically incarnated himself, the priest of Jerusalem (Salem), master of Abraham, the patriarch of the three major monotheistic religions of the world, Judaism, Christianity and Islam); 15) John the Baptist (cousin of Jesus of Nazareth); 16) 1-2-3 (to be intermediate ("Invisible") - leader of loyal intermediary creatures in the service of Gabriel at the time of Caligastia's betrayal). Seats of 17 to 20, as well as those of 21 to 24 are temporary, but will have as their destination, mortal human beings that evolve spiritually in an expressive way).

To Ron Besser and to everyone

For my part, I ask God, the Universal Father, and all the deities and celestial beings that are connected in some way with our planet Urantia, that Ron Besser, by his very high spiritual level, be named (promoted) to integrate this select group of 24 (twenty-four) councilors.


=== 

A Daniel e Melquisedeque Mansonloran e a Ron Besser. 

A Daniel e Melquisedeque Mannsonloran

Muito obrigado por esta mensagem sobre as raças que diz, em síntese, que todo o ser humano, independente de raça pode alcançar a luz de Deus. 

Realmente, existe um trecho no Livro de Urantia que fala que existe representante de todas as raças nos 24 conselheiros de nosso mundo, inclusive, representante das raças sangiques extintas (azul, laranja e verde). (vide documentos 45 e 114 do Livro de Urantia).

1) Onagar; 2) Mansant; 3) Onamonaloton (homem da raça vermelha - América do Norte); 4) Orlandof (homem da raça azul - raça extinta - "homem de cro-magnon" - Europa); 5) Porshunta (homem da raça alaranjada - raça extinta - provavelmente África); 6) Singlangton (homem da raça amarela - provavelmente Ásia); 7) Fantad (homem da raça verde - raça extinta - provavelmente África); 8) Orvonon (homem da raça índigo-negra - África); 9) Adão (Filho Material que veio ao nosso planeta em torno de 37.000 anos atrás para contribuir e tornar mais equilibrada a herança genética do ser humano - raça violeta - Mesopotâmia); 10) Eva (Filha Material que veio ao nosso planeta em torno de 37.000 anos atrás para contribuir e tornar mais equilibrada a herança genética do ser humano - raça violeta - Mesopotâmia); 11) Enoch (o primeiro mortal a fundir com o Ajustador do Pensamento em vida); 12) Moisés (judeu - líder dos hebreus no "Êxodo" - Saída do Egito); 13) Elias (O profeta do antigo testamento); 14) Maquiventa Melquisedeque (Melquisedeque que se encarnou fisicamente, o sacerdote de Jerusalém (Salém), mestre de Abraão, o patriarca das três maiores religiões monoteísta do mundo, judaísmo, cristianismo e islamismo); 15) João Batista (primo de Jesus de Nazaré); 16) 1-2-3 (ser intermediário ("Invisível") - líder das criaturas intermediárias leais a serviço de Gabriel quando da traição de Caligástia). Os assentos de 17 a 20, bem como, o de 21 a 24 são temporários, mas terão como destino, seres humanos mortais que evoluirem espiritualmente de forma expressiva). 

A Ron Besser e a todos

Da minha parte, eu peço a Deus, Pai Universal e a todas as deidades e seres celestiais que estão ligado de alguma forma com nosso planeta Urantia, que Ron Besser, pelo seu altíssimo nível espiritual seja nomeado (promovido) para integrar este seleto grupo de 24 (vinte e quatro) conselheiros.
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